A blog dedicated to RMS Titanic, her passengers & crew, and the stories she still tells today. We will occasionally write our own articles & research, & we welcome Asks & Submissions as well! Enjoy our biography project where we are writing detailed profiles of each passenger and crew member!
This blog was created by Tanya, a History & Maritime Studies major, minor in Archaeology and pursuing a wreck-diving certification with her degree. She is a member of the Titanic Historical Society and dreams of a career in preserving underwater artifacts, specifically from Titanic, and opening her own museum & historical society in New York.
Jeni is co-owner of this blog. She is an Anthropology and History major, who does tours in the New York metro area and helps with research. She also focuses on fashions throughout history and social history.
Although this blog mainly focuses on Titanic, other things ship-related in history will be posted.
The Aft Grand Staircase on Olympic. Titanic’s would have been almost identical, except on Titanic the lower level in this photo (B Deck) was a more open, white-paneled reception room for the A la Carte Restaurant. This room would later be added on Olympic in a different configuration, but in this photo you only see a corridor in the background.
So I founded that text from Interner:
RMS Titanic was in fact the RMS Olympic - Insurance fraud by JP Morgan
I was reading Uncensored magazine last night and there was an excellent article on the Titanic. I decided to do some of my own investigation and tracked down some old photos of both vessels being built, and then, when the Titanic was launched on it’s ill-fated voyage.
For those of you unfamiliar with the background or significance of this, the RMS Olympic had recently crashed into the HMS Hawke, causing a huge amount of damage to both vessels and ripping a gaping hole in the stern of the Olympic, as well as buckling her hull and snapping the tailshaft.
The ship needed to be rebuilt completely at a massive cost to JP Morgan, who was facing a huge insurance loss.
So he ordered that the Olympic and Titanic were to trade places, and new name plates were riveted over the top of the etched ones. All the identifying items such as crockery etc were swapped also.
Knowing that this vessel was a complete right-off anyway, he sent it to a watery grave where no-one could question it, and made sure to increase the insurance on it a few weeks prior to it departing.
The real Titanic, now re-named the RMS Olympic would keep running in perfect condition and was eventually sold for scrap, and cut up.
However, not many people realised that there were a few minor differences in the two vessels.
The RMS Titanic, when it was built in Ireland, had 14 portholes at the front, and large evenly spaced windows on the second deck.
The RMS Olympic, when it was built side by side the Titanic, had 16 Portholes at the front, and thin, unevenly spaced windows on the second deck.
Notice the difference between the photos of the Titanic being built, and then after the two ships have swapped identities.
Who would know?
But now we know…
Here is the thread!
What do you think about this?
I think this is utter bullshit, that’s what I think. Or to put it another way:
I’ve seen a lot about this whole switch theory, it’s nothing new, and it has been debunked left and right by people who actually know what they’re talking about. First of all…
In this image, the top image is actually Titanic, not Olympic. But there’s a reason for the different windows, and it’s not the switch theory:
When Olympic was designed and built, they had two full-length promenades, one on A Deck, and one on B Deck.
When Titanic was designed and built, it was mainly to Olympic’s specifications, which at first included both full promenades. When Titanic was launched (not finished, just put in the water and sent to be fitted out), she had the entire A Deck promenade open like Olympic, and also had a full B Deck promenade, hence the evenly-spaced larger windows. However, during fitting-out they decided to add some features and change some things on Titanic based on various observations they made on Olympic, which had already been sailing for a little while. On A Deck, they enclosed a section of the promenade. On B Deck ,they eliminated most of the promenade, extending cabins and the a La Carte Restaurant out to the side and leaving a few sections of original promenade for the private promenades and Cafe Parisien. The cabins and restaurant necessitated smaller windows, so they removed the original plating with the large windows and installed new plating with the new window arrangement, except for the windows in the remaining sections of promenade, hence the new window layout.
On Olympic, the A Deck promenade was never enclosed, but they did eventually make similar changes to B Deck, extending the cabins and so forth. However, this wasn’t done until sometime after Titanic’s sinking during a later refit.
For this image:
The difference in the B Deck windows, thin and wide ones, has already been explained.
Photos of the Titanic during construction and launch do show 14 portholes on the bow, and then during fitting out and later there are 16. However, this is also because of changes made during fitting out, not because the ships were switched. It would have been simple matter to add a couple portholes. The location of the T is also explainable The name seen there is either the result of temporary markings or “photoshopped” into the image. Another photo of Titanic just before launch clearly shows the T in the same place as it is later on in the left photo.
The same change to the portholes was also made on Olympic later on, and most photos I see of Olympic pre and post 1913 refit, and during the rest of her career, show 16 portholes as well.
Additionally, a crap documentary about the supposed switch says that the name letters were “riveted” on over the Olympic letters. They went on to say that some letters had fallen off on the wreck and then showed footage of an M and a P on the wreck which was clearly a work of fake CG. Fact is, the letters TITANIC were etched or cut into the hull plating, not riveted, unable to fall off. The letters are still on the wreck, and nobody has ever seen an M or P on the wreck. The only people who have seen that are idiots who watch that documentary, see the fake M and P on the footage, and believe it.
So, the first post on that thread seems to base their idea that the ships were switched on evidence that actually isn’t evidence of a switch at all and is easily explainable by what we like to call “facts” and “history”, known to people who actually know what the hell they’re talking about and don’t just spend all day on conspiracy forums hating the government and banks and talking about how everything is a conspiracy. There’s more, though:
The windows and portholes and promenades weren’t the only differences. There were numerous differences, mostly minor, between both ships on their interiors and exteriors. It would have taken a hell of a lot of work by thousands of shipyard workers to change everything, ad to do it unquestioningly with nobody talking about it? It’s all one big impossibility. There’s so much more to this that I couldn’t possibly get into it here.
Sufficed to say, this switch theory was concocted in the mid 1990s by a plasterer with too much time on his hands and an active imagination. His effort to convince people it was a conspiracy is nothing more than twisted and made up facts and an overall dish of dishonesty. The same goes for the aforementioned documentary featuring a man whose jaw would have been enough to sink Titanic (oh, I’m sorry, I mean Olympic, how foolish of me). Since his idea popped up, we’ve had lots of time to actually check the facts, something conspiracy theorists don’t do. No actual evidence has ever been found that even remotely indicates the ships were switched, and in any case it’s an entirely absurd proposal to make that makes no sense at all, unless you’ve been drinking too much conspiracy juice, like those who believe the World Trade Center towers were brought down by missiles with hologram planes around them or a super ray gun, or that the Moon Landing was faked, or that lizards are running the planet.
If you really want to get into this ridiculous “theory” and find out why it’s bunk, please read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Titanic-Olympic-Which-Ship-ebook/dp/B007HOSD0G - “Titanic or Olympic: Which Ship Sank” by Bruce Beveridge and Steve Hall, people who actually know what they’re talking about.
You can also read two online articles that go into some detail about the conspiracy theory, concocted by a guy named Robin Gardiner, and why it’s bunk, here: http://www.paullee.com/titanic/switch.html - And here: http://www.markchirnside.co.uk/Conspiracy_Dissertation.pdf
For people who are already skeptical of this switch idea or already don’t believe it, of course, the aforementioned information and any debunking would be plenty. Unfortunately, most conspiracy theorists will not budge. I can say what I want, those authors and all the world’s Titanic experts can say what they want, and the conspiracy nuts can be shown everything that one can show them that disproves their idea, but they will still believe it’s a conspiracy, and that the ships really were switched, because they don’t accept reality. They would rather live in their own reality where they can make sense of everything by their own standards and convince themselves they live in a world where all events are orchestrated by evil governments and other parties. Conspiracies like these are, in a sense, a religion for these people, and believing them a matter of faith propped up by falsified evidence, fabricated facts, and misunderstandings and pure ignorance, with shoddy logic thrown in. So for the hardcore conspiracy believers, no amount of argument will convince them otherwise and posts like the one I have just written are ultimately useless.
However, I have written my brief rebuttal not necessarily in the hope that those hardcore believers will see why they’re full of malarkey, but so that someone out there who isn’t a complete imbecile will be able to tell when said bunk is being thrown at them.
I leave you with this:
Someone had asked about my sources and if I accept submissions.
If you have any information, images or documents about a passenger that you would like to share with me to be included in a biography I will gladly accept it. I only ask that this information be reliable(if you could provide me with a source to make it easier for me to check as I do with all information I’d appreciate it). If you would like to be given credit let me know.
All my information is taken from various sources. I will not write anything without checking multiple sources first, including birth/death certificates if available, and any other documentation about a person. I use websites, books, census information, news reports, etc as well as ancestry/geneology websites to check information.
In many cases there are contrasting accounts, dates or information about a person, in which case I usually point out both or all of the possibilities if just one is not considered fact. I also understand that every source has their own way of reiterating information and stories can be changed with a few words here and there, and so I do my best to combine all of them into as efficient and sensible a post as possible.
If you have any corrections for or disagreements with my information let me know! Or if you have any further questions about a passenger I will try my best to answer!
In regards to how I’m going about the passengers: By class and last names in alphabetical order.
[No photo available]
Status: Survived (Lifeboat #10)
Born: 8/12/1849 (some sources say 1848 but ‘49 is listed on her death certificate)
Travelling With: Anna Hogeboom(sister), Gretchen Fiske Longley(niece)
Buried: Hudson, NY
Daughter of Robert Emmet and Matilda Fonda Andrews, Kornelia Thoedosia Andrews was born in Hudson, New York in 1848. She was a leader in society and charity works, and a graduate of Oberlin College of Ohio (as stated by the New York Times in 1913, however the college itself cannot find records of her attendance). She was a manager of the Hudson City Hospital since its organization, and in 1912 she was the hospital’s Vice President.
On the night of the sinking, Kornelia was up in bed reading, while her sister Anna and niece Gretchen were sleeping when Titanic struck ice. She claimed that she knew the ship had struck an iceberg due to the pieces of ice coming through the porthole. The crew had told the ladies there was no immediate danger and so they returned to bed. It wasn’t until a little while later when the ladies inquired about the situation again due to commotion in the corridor that they were told to report to the boat decks with lifebelts on.
Three lifeboats lowered before the ladies got in due to their refusal to separate from one another. Eventually they all were seated in lifeboat #10. Kornelia was very critical of the men allowed in their lifeboat, and describes her experiences,
“We had one sailor, and then any man who could row was allowed to get in and so a Chinese and an Armenian got in, saying they could row, but they could not, so Gretchen assisted the sailor on one side and two or three women on the other, until her hands were frozen stiff…There was Mr. Thayer, president of the Pennsylvania railroad. Mr. John Jacob Astor, having to wave farewell to his beautiful wife, Major Butt and hundreds of others, who probably knew there was no hope for them. We have never seen them since…We were a mile away from the Titanic when there was a great explosion. It appeared to me as if the boilers had blown up and the Titanic had been lifted up amidships and broken in half. This is the way it appeared to me…and then, my dear the screams and the shrieks as 1000 of the steerage went down, and I suppose, the crew and officers and all the Americans. All my life I will hear those shrieks….Here on the Carpathia we see all the time such sad things. Nearly every other woman is weeping for husband or son, and it is all past description.
I have had three staterooms offered me, but there are others who need them much more, and so we slept on the floor in the library with 20 or 30 others, babies crying because both parents were lost, and others because their mothers were gone…The icebergs all around made the water and air intensely cold, and those long, long hours of agony, nearly 10 hours in mid-ocean, women crying all around because they felt so sure their husbands and brothers would not be saved. One woman had two little ones. Her husband and three others were not with us and we have never heard of them. And now, I could not tell you in weeks the sad, sad, stories around us.”
Kornelia also reported of an officer in their boat flicking a lit match at them causing a stir among the women. They were rescued by the Carpathia and eventually returned to their homes in Hudson, NY. After the sinking Miss Andrews filed a claim for $480.50 with the White Star Line. She passed away in 1913 in Hudson, NY from pneumonia.
Mrs. Bessie Waldo Allison (Daniels), Helen Loraine Allison and Hudson Trevor Allison
Status: Lost(body unidentified), Lost(body unidentified), Saved(lifeboat #11)
Cabin: C22, C24, C26
M.S.: Married to Mr. Hudson Joshua Creighton Allison
Travelling With: Hudson Joshua Allison(husband), Helen Loraine Allison(daughter), Hudson Trevor Allison(son), Alice Catherine Cleaver(nursemaid to Trevor), Sarah Daniels(lady’s maid to Bess) [All on same ticket] [Different ticket and in second class - Amelia Mary Mildred Brown(cook) and George Swane(chauffer)]
* (see earlier post for information on her husband, Mr. Hudson JC Allison)
Born Bessie Waldo Daniels in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, the youngest daughter of Arville Daniels and Sarah McCully. She married Mr. Hudson JC Allison in 1907. They had a daughter Helen Loraine (2 years old born 6/5/1909) and a son Trevor(11 months old born 5/7/1911). The Allisons were on their way home to Canada from a family trip to Europe, and traveled with 4 employees.
The Allisons were dining companions with Major Arthur Peuchen, and on the night of April 14, Bessie took her daughter Loraine into the dining room so she could see how “pretty” it was.
When the ship struck ice, Mr. Allison went up to check on the situation. Unknown to the family, Alice Cleaver, baby Trevor’s nursemaid, had already left her cabin and headed for the boat deck with the baby. She was put into lifeboat #11 with Trevor. The Allisons went up to the deck, where Bessie and Loraine were put into a lifeboat. Mr. Allison left before their lifeboat was lowered in order to search for baby Trevor. However, Bessie refused to leave without her baby or her husband, nor would she leave Loraine behind, so she took Loraine and left the lifeboat. (This is the general account, however another account states that the entire family including Trevor and Alice went up to the boat deck together, and that Alice and Trevor were lost in the commotion and found another lifeboat, so Mr. Allison went to look for them and Bessie refused to leave).
It is stated that the family’s chauffeur George Swane, who saw Alice, Trevor, and another of the family’s employees to the lifeboat, found the family and informed them of Trevor’s safety, but by the time the information came to them, it was too late. They were last seen on deck smiling. Bessie is 1 of only 4 first class women who perished in the sinking, and little Loraine being the only child in first or second class to perish.
Trevor was the only family member to survive. He was given to Mr. Allison’s brother George and wife Lillian by Alice in New York. Trevor returned to Canada with them and was raised by them. At the age of 18 in 1929, Trevor died from food poisoning after being on holiday visiting family.
On April 15, 2012, people came throughout the day to Chelsea Pier 54 to pay their respects. On that day I met people from all over the world, including Scotland, England and Australia. People still leave flowers, and every time I go back and see a new note or bouquet it fills me with tears. To know that people still care, and not as if it was just an interesting story from history, but as if it just happened, as if our lives are changed because of it, makes it even more important to preserve her memory forever.
A render of an area of the Titanic rarely discussed or depicted: A crew dormitory located along “Scotland Road” on E-Deck, this one with berths for up to 40 Saloon Waiters (in a single room, one of many).
On Titanic, the crew referred to these compartments as “Glory Holes”. Not for any reason modern people might be thinking. ”Glory Hole” was a name given ironically to these rooms because on older ships, and perhaps other ships of the era, crew compartments were miserable, dirty and overcrowded. By the time Titanic was built, things had improved a bit, but the ironic name was still in use.
Modeled & rendered by Matthew DeWinkeleer
Miss Elisabeth Walton Allen
Travelling With: Mrs. Edward Scott Robert(Aunt), Miss Georgette Alexandra Madill(cousin), and Robert’s maid Emilie Kreuchen (on same ticket)
Miss Allen was the daughter of George W. Allen and Lydia McMillan. She was engaged in 1912 to Dr. James Beaver Mennell, a British physician. She was returning home to St. Louis, Missouri to gather her belongings in order to move to England in June of that year. Miss Allen survived the disaster, being seated in Lifeboat #2. After the sinking she filed a claim for $2,427.80 against the White Star Line for the loss of her personal property. Afterwards she stated “We slipped what trinkets we had into our coats but most of our valuables were in the pursers safe. We had only a few trunks because we were merely on our way home from winter in London, and expecting to go back in June”.
Miss Allen returned to England and married James Mennell in July of 1912 in a double wedding with her sister. She died at the age of 85 in her home in Tunbridge Wells, England.
“…There came a slight jar, and the engines stopped. We looked out of the porthole but could see nothing and we concluded it was some small accident and we would be moving on in a few minutes. But my aunt put her dress on over her night clothes and we sat down again to wait.
A few minutes later there was a knock on the door and Mrs. Robert’s maid rushed in to tell us that there was water in the baggage room which was on the same tier with her berth down below. She was more or less hysterical but she is inclined to be that way, and we thought nothing of it. We told her to go back to bed, She had hardly gone when she came running back to tell us that the water was now running into her room. We concluded then that something must be wrong.”
I’m currently doing research for an article I’ve been planning on writing for a while that I might develop into my thesis.
Part of that research requires me to do a little digging for opinions outside of my own on the topic. So I’d very much appreciate your input! Don’t worry, you can submit anon if you want, I won’t be using any direct quotes(unless you want me to & I have your permission). I’d just like to hear from you guys so I can get a better idea of where people stand on this topic today. If you could pass this around also I’d greatly appreciate it.
So here we go. You don’t have to answer all of these. And feel free to add anything else you’d like to say on the topic, such as information, facts, etc.
The topic: J Bruce Ismay
1. How do you feel about his actions the night of the sinking?
2. What is your impression of his character in general?
3. Would you apply the same opinion towards someone who did what he did in today’s society?
4. What do you think you would have done in his position?
5. Was society too harsh on him?
6. Do you think films portray Ismay accurately?
7. Have you had any further study on Ismay(such as inquiry readings, biographies, witness accounts, etc)?
Heyy all my lovely Titanic enthusiasts! I’ve been MIA lately due mostly to work & school, but thank you for sticking around!
I WILL be writing some stuff soon! I just recently renewed my membership with the Titanic Historical Society so I will also be posting some articles from their quarterly Commutator magazine.
I’m also going on another Titanic tour August 26th which I’m extremely excited for, so there will be plenty of pictures and information posted about that!
For now - have a great day! :)